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Again, spoilers for 8x03 and speculations beyond! Beware! 

Okay, there aren't really any spoilers, just speculation. And I wouldn't even call it that. It's more like... Brain-farting.


So, here is what's happening - Amelia is not real. When Sam hit the dog and brought it to the vet clinic, it actually died and Sam snapped, making out this fantasy of living with the dog (by the way, Riot is an amazing name in my opinion) and the nice animal doctor lady, because he couldn't deal with being so alone anymore. That's why all his flashback have this dreamy quality to them - they are just that, dreams. That's why Sam doesn't call her, why she doesn't call him... 

This is basically all I got from this episode. This, and that Papa Ackles is awesome.


Date: 2012-10-18 10:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greeneyes-fan.livejournal.com
That's an interesting theory, and you may be right.

I definitely think there's something a little "off" about Sam's lost year. I don't think it happened the way he described it to Dean. Not that Sam's lying, but he's definitely mistaken or deceived.

Date: 2012-10-19 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
There is absolutely something off with Sam; I mean, both Sam and Dean seem a little *off* at the moment, but with Dean we are given explanations and reasons (aka Purgatory). Sam, not so much.

I juuust had another idea but I'm not sure what's your spoiler policy and how much can I give away so I'm gonna ~keep my mouth shut... ;D

Date: 2012-10-18 11:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] honeylocusttree.livejournal.com
Hah oh my god, that's fantastic. I would absolutely read that.

Or watch it. Y'know. Whatever.

Brilliant.

Date: 2012-10-19 06:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
It's funny how often when someone comes up with something cool, people are like, "yeah, that'd make a good fic!" instead of, "that'd be great if it happened in canon!" ;D

But I agree, I wouldn't mind if someone wrote it it happened.

Date: 2012-10-19 12:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadid-cairo.livejournal.com
Wow, that's a really cool theory you have there, and it could make sooo much sense... since I really can't imagine Sam just giving up on Dean without even looking for him unless he suffered some sort of meltdown.

Date: 2012-10-19 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Exactly! I can't imagine Sam, not just not giving up, but not having a meltdown over it at all. It just... Does not compute.

Date: 2012-10-19 01:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maypoles.livejournal.com
I've been willing to take Sam's arc at face-value this season so far - it makes sense to me if I recognize his actions are coming from a place of trauma and losing Dean, again, and being entirely alone, etc. although they haven't shown that explicitly onscreen quite enough for me if that's what they're aiming for - but yeah, there's something pinging me about those dreamy flashbacks too. Hmmm. I really wouldn't like if they went this particular route, though. One thing I wanted from this season were no more drawn-out 'what's wrong with Sam' arcs, and that includes hallucinating!Sam, which was my least favourite of them all. I feel like Sam's emotional storyline gets lost in those arcs, and then Dean worries about Sam and that becomes his storyline and his emotional storyline ends up being buried too, and it makes me saaaad. ;_;

Date: 2012-10-19 06:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
I can see where you're coming from. The big "What's wrong with Sammy? D:" plot-arcs were kind of bugging me as well, even though I usually liked them (I loved soulless!Sam, no regrets, and Hallucifer, too), because the real problem, IMHO, was them putting Dean in this "caretaker" role - and then making it his ONLY role, in the whole story. Which is not something Carver seems to want to do, so I'm calm about this for now. :)

Bottom line is, both boys deserve a big plot-arc *and* an emotional storyline (and so does Cas. SOMEONE MAKE IT HAPPEN, PLEASE.)

Date: 2012-10-19 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maypoles.livejournal.com
I loved soulless!Sam too. <3 I think it went on for too long, however, and couldn't take hallucinating!Sam at all because I was still very much stuck back on how they dealt with Dean's post-hell issues, and to me it was like that got ignored, re-done (only in a more ~extreme way) and then even though I wanted the storyline to go awayyyy, when it did I was annoyed on Sam's behalf because then his issues got ignored TOO. Lol, basically seasons 6/7 couldn't win with me whatever they did.

the real problem, IMHO, was them putting Dean in this "caretaker" role - and then making it his ONLY role, in the whole story. Which is not something Carver seems to want to do, so I'm calm about this for now. :)

Yes. I love the way you worded this; that really is at the crux of it for me too. And yeah, I would just adore them having emotional storylines especially focused on at the same time. Come on season 8; I'm cheering for you. *\o/*

Date: 2012-10-20 08:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Yes... I think pacing was one of the main problems with S6 and S7 - everything went on for either too long, or it wasn't dealt with enough (Eve, anyone?). That's something I notice in a lot of Sera's episodes in general, despite how much I love her writing, and maybe that's why she wasn't such a good showrunner? Too many plotlines, so little time, dwelling on things...

The whole hallucinations-storyline had some major issues. To me it seemed like the writers were thinking, oh, we have a second chance at dealing with post-Hell issues, let's do it *right* this time! and they went a little overboard with it. XD Dean's didn't get enough screen-time, Sam's got too much and were too serious... That's why I'm excited about post-Purgatory Dean so much! And worried about Sam's plotline a little right now.

Despite that, I think we're all cheering for Season 8. <3

Date: 2012-11-05 04:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zaphael-firefly.livejournal.com
because the real problem, IMHO, was them putting Dean in this "caretaker" role

Yes, to this so much. Dean has been allowed to grow the least with having the most time put into his character. It's like the writers are afraid to do anything other than Man Pain Dean and it's made me really dislike Dean as a character. Which is a shame because I in the first three seasons liked Dean. After Season 3 his character just went downhill and never made it over the hump.

Date: 2012-11-05 06:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Mmmh, I wouldn't say Dean has the most time put into his character. See, the show is written in a format where Sam is "The Plot Device" and Dean is "The Point Of View."

What I mean is, Sam gets most of the storylines - it's always "Sam has Powers," "Sam has Demon Blood," "Sam doesn't have a soul," "Sam's Hell-wall broke," etc. And we view these storylines through Dean's eyes, who has the "Emotional Depth," so to speak. (Dean's first decent storyline was - if you don't count his crossroad deal, which was a giant clusterfuck, not a storyline - him being Michael's true vessel. And that's in Season 5.)
Edited Date: 2012-11-05 06:33 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-11-05 10:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zaphael-firefly.livejournal.com
Sam is "The Plot Device" and Dean is "The Point Of View.
I agree. It frustrates me to no end that almost everything in this show is filtered through Dean's eyes. It leaves things skewed too far in Dean's direction. IMO

Sam gets most of the storylines

I don't really agree with you here, yes Sam has storylines, but so does Dean and they tend to take up most of the show. Dean's deal was the focal point of S3(it may have been a clusterfuck but it was still a storyline), S4 was Dean's return from Hell, and the angel storyline which was mainly about Dean. S5 it was Dean's trying to deal wth Sam's 'betrayal' and the fact that he was Michael's vessel.
S6 Sam may have had the Soulless story line but it was Dean who had the 'family' vs 'hunting' storyline and the whole 'saving Sam' which has been just about costant. S7 Dean's pain over Bobby and Castiel again dominated Sam's wall falling which was in the background. S8 I've actually done something I thought I'd never do which is stop watching the show. The writers keep retelling the same story over and over again, there's no character development just regression, Dean is always playing the victim and somewhere along the road Sam is a 'bad' brother. At least in the fandoms eyes.

Date: 2012-11-05 11:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Anymore hate on Dean while we're at it? :)

Date: 2012-11-06 04:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zaphael-firefly.livejournal.com
I wasn't hating on Dean. At least I wasn't trying to.
I do dislike what the writers have done with Dean in a lot of ways.
I feel like the writers have become so fixed on a certain formula that it has left the show and the characters in a rut, the rut is formed by Dean always the sufferer and Sam always the betrayer in some form or other.
I feel like the writers have stunted Dean's character in favor of man pain because all Dean can do on the show is suffer and feel betrayed.

Date: 2012-11-06 05:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] onetouchspark.livejournal.com
What are you guys talking about, the show is about Cas. XD

Date: 2012-11-06 05:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Oh my fucking -- Aly, just go home! XD

Date: 2012-11-06 11:47 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-10-19 05:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] prufrock-26.livejournal.com
YESSSSS. This is *exactly* what I needed to rid me of my nagging and irrational irritation at the crazy cotton-candy acid-trip quality of all those flashbacks.

But you know, this does make sense. Because that happy life Sam's supposed to have had is so indistinct and one-dimensional and perfect: it's all Woman and Dog and Sunshine without any real substance or context or explanation. And yes, of course, we're three episodes in, so there's plenty of time for more explanation/exposition/whatever. But it does seem a little odd to me that three episodes in, we already know in some detail a lot of what happened to Dean in Purgatory (obviously, there's loads more that we *don't* know, but still). And yet in an episode that purported to be partly about Sam's desire for a normal life, we really saw nothing of that alleged life, except for a brief, dreamlike snippet.

Also? While I'm busy totally buying into this theory and embroidering it with all the conviction that comes with sleep deprivation? I think one might, possibly, make something of the fact that The Woman is called Amelia. I could totally buy this as some kind of angry/guilty breakdown in which Sam tries to pretend that not all of the women he cares about are now dead.

I don't know if the grammar of that made sense. I should probably do some sleeping now. *wise exam preparation FTW*

Date: 2012-10-19 06:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
IKR? I had this "irrational irritation" too, and this is the only explanation that I can come up with that makes any sense to me!

And exactly. They keep showing Dean's year in (sort of) great detail, but not Sam's year. And I don't believe that it's just them forgetting Sam, they seemed to handle Dean's relationship with Lisa well (at least in a way I liked and made sense to me), so I don't believe they would screw up Sam's for some reason, or forget about it, or not think it's interesting enough... So there has to be something else?

Also, dead!Amelia is officially a SPN trope, I think? ;D

Good luck with your exams!

Date: 2012-10-21 08:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparrow-lately.livejournal.com
Please forgive random creeping (it's four am, there was a lot of wine, and now I have all these tabs open, lol) but OMG yes. Those kinda fuzzy, dreamlike shiny-overbright flashbacks are bugging me,a nd if they're just a cheap way to contrast Dean's super gritty purgatory flashbacks I'll be sorta annoyed.

Date: 2012-10-21 08:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
It's okay, I am all for random creeping (especially if it involves wine)! ;D And my thoughts exactly. If they are actually painting Sam's missing year a fuzzy, fluffy fairytale I won't be too happy with them!

Date: 2012-10-21 08:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparrow-lately.livejournal.com
Yeah but let's be real, since when has Supernatural ever gone the fuzzy fluffy fairytale root for real? The closest they came I guess was with John and Mary, but don't they make a point later that John kinda glazed over the rough bits--and those must have been seriously rough if Dean (a) picked up on them fairly keenly as a four year old and (b) remembered them for the next thirty years.

Or Sam and Jess but that was clearly just LOOK AT THIS HOT LADY SHE WILL DIE SO OUR STAR CAN BE ~TORTURED.

Edit: I meant to agree with you somewhere in there.
Edited Date: 2012-10-21 08:33 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-10-21 08:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Yesss, exactly. That's why I still have faith! ;D I like how they never go this happily-ever-after route - not even with Dean and Lisa or, as you pointed out, John and Mary (poor Deano ;A;).

Don't worry, I got it! ;D

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