seeing_ghosts: (Dean - Swan Song)
[personal profile] seeing_ghosts

Wow, that was a good episode. 

Anyway, below be scary spoilers and frightening speculation and wannabe meta. Access at your own risk! 


I'll start with Bobby (and by proxy, Garth). I've seen a lot of people get upset over Garth being the new Bobby - but that is such an over-simplified view on things that I don't even know how to handle it. 

The writers aren't setting Garth up as the new Bobby - the way Dean and Sam themselves are so against it should have made that obvious. What Garth is here, actually, is 'a Bobby' - in this context a researcher, a go-to man (remember when in 6x04 Weekend at Bobby's the demons had their own Bobby Singer?) because the hunter community apparently needs 'a Bobby.' (I love the idea, by the way, of the whole community falling into disarray after Bobby's death and the Winchesters disappearing. That is an amazing thought and it is duly noted for future ficcing resources.) 

So please, fandom, stop thinking of Garth as Bobby's substitute; he is, in a way, but not to the boys and not to us - only to the hunting community. He isn't any more Bobby Singer than Frank Devereaux was Bobby Singer (Frank was only there to show how much he wasn't, in my honest opinion.)

I also have to admit that this was the first episode I liked Garth in. For the first time they wrote him as a human, believable character instead of an obnoxious comic relief.



Now, let's talk about Dean. Because I've seen a lot of hate for Dean after this episode - that he has no right to hold grudges against Sam (and Cas), that he is immature because he is unable to let them go, that he puts people on a pedestal and expects too much from them. All of this is true, in a way - Dean and Sam's issues from years ago should be behind them if they want to work with each other; holding grudges is mostly childish behavior; Dean does put people on a pedestal. 

But at the same time, Dean has never been allowed to deal with his issues; they had an Apocalypse to stop, they had a soul to find, they had Leviathans to fights. Dean's been burying his hurt inside himself for years, and contrary to popular belief, he actually has every reason to be upset - with both Sam and Cas. They have both hurt Dean in ways Dean never hurt them. Being upset about your brother choosing a girl (in this case, a demon) over you is very plausible reason to be upset, actually. And Dean wasn't in no way required to forgive Sam - even though he still did. He just never forgot.

And that's another thing people seem to not realize - Dean wasn't exactly himself when he said all those things and attacked Sam. Of course, they stemmed from things Dean was feeling, but never would have vocalized in the first place; not because he was keeping them inside, letting them rot and poison him, but because he cannot choose how he feels - but he can choose if it affects the people around him. So yes, Dean might have been feeling that pain and betrayal but chose not to hold it against Sam because they were past it (and him treating Sam the way he does since 8x01 because he left him in Purgatory without ever looking for him, turned off his phone and ran away is, again, very much understandable - just as much as Sam's desire to get away from the family business that killed his family). 

And for fuck's sake, the spectre made a woman kill her beloved husband because he cheated on her thirty years ago! 



All in all, I loved the episode - Adam Glass, kudos to you! I knew it's been in you all along. 


Date: 2012-11-09 10:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] biketest.livejournal.com
Yes! This! It's not that Dean didn't forgive Sam for all those things, he did, but he was still hurt by them. I'm not very involved with fandom on places other than livejournal and it's shocking to me that anyone would blame Dean for what he said. To me, Sam's comments were the ones that seemed unnecessarily cruel and angry.

Date: 2012-11-09 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Exactly. He can't exactly choose not to feel hurt all of a sudden, and if that's childish then I'm sorry that everyone in this is fandom is so mature and Dean, with all his experiences, is not.

And I wouldn't say that Sam was "unnecessarily cruel" because he has every right to feel oppressed by Dean, because Dean is treating him like dick, but it's Sam, of all people, who should know that you can't control yourself when you're possessed; whether by a demon or a ghost (and he's been possessed by both at least once).

Sam, in general, is again ignoring and belittling Dean's issues and Dean is again unable to communicate them. It's like Season 4 all over again in this aspect.

Date: 2012-11-10 08:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] biketest.livejournal.com
Yep! And your whole comment thread with Sparrow is spot on as well. :)

Date: 2012-11-10 09:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
<3 Thank you! Sparrow is incredibly articulate. ;)

Date: 2012-11-10 08:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparrow-lately.livejournal.com
I AM SERIOUSLY UNABLE TO CONTAIN MY LOVE FOR THE GLIMPSES OF THE LARGER HUNTER COMMUNITY.
I am so attached to this image of two grizzled old bastards sitting around talking to the scrubbed, jittery newbies. "Well shit, you gotta demon infestation out in Missoula? Was a time the Winchesters'd'a had that in the bag yesterday." "I ain't got no fucking idea what to do with a rugaru, and I can't ask Singer...or Rufus Turner either. God, don't you miss Ash?" "I remember when John Winchester, green as anything, got himself half-murdered by...Jesus, was it a wendigo? Laid up at Harvelle's for six weeks with his boys down in Minnesota with Jim Murphy. Christ, they're all gone now. When'd we get old?"

...okay Sparrow contain your goddamn self.

As for Dean...I mean, yes. One of the reasons I want to just kind of hug Dean for 9000 years is because he was expected to act like an adult from the time he was about 5, and at no point in the series has he EVER had the opportunity to process his life (barring the Ben&Lisa period but meh I'm too tired to expound on that). Seriously, the guy was a mess of issues and repression in season one, and when has he ever well and truly exploded? I'm just saying.

It's 3 am and I should just calm down.

Date: 2012-11-10 05:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
No, no, no, Sparrow, keep going! ;D But I 100% agree, I adore when they flash out the community beyond Team Free Will. That's why I loved the Roadhouse and will never forgive Kripke for burning it down! ;D And the idea of the Winchesters (and Bobby) being legends among hunters is just, ugh, too awesome for words!

Exactly, exactly! Dean is, in a way, so very mature and in other ways still the four year old kid, never allowed to grow up, or deal with any of his past traumata. Is it that surprising that he wouldn't know how to get past them, when he can't even admit them? Not even to himself?

And the thing that pisses me off the most about this is that Dean was possessed when this confrontation happened. For crying out loud, when Sam got possessed by a ghost he actually shot Dean - like, four times! He, of all people, should realize how unfair and non-consensual this situation was. And yet he still got angry. No, Sammy, bad Sammy! :(

Date: 2012-11-10 06:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparrow-lately.livejournal.com
I love Sam, but he is, especially as compared to Dean Winchester, Patron Saint of Ruthless Repression and Stupid Self-Sacrifice, selfish. Not when it comes to the Big Stuff like saving the world, but in tiny, interpersonal ways. The way I see it, John hyper-focused on Sam's safety, so to Dean that means "protect Sam at all costs," and to Sam that makes, on some subconscious level, "the whole world revolves around me." I was struck during their arguments during Wednesday's episode by the idea that Sam fully expects Dean to (a) always be around, and (b) do things Sam's way, which is funny both because they're adults and men in their thirties do not necessarily owe one another the kind of honesty and deference a parent expects from a wayward 13-year-old, and because Sam has a lot of trouble with both of those things. No Sam-hate here--Sam is generally doing the best he can with what he's got. It's just funny that the guy who has gotten pissy and walked away the most of anyone is still the most shocked by the idea that Dean would maybe even think along the same lines. Which is partly because Dean defines himself by hunting and Sam.

Hi I'm rambling.

Also, have the Winchesters ever come up against something they couldn't eventually kill? Well, they're the heroes of our show, so no. They shot the godddamn devil in the head (it didn't work, but still, takes a certain chutzpah). They must be legends. I was going to say their various absences must have struck a serious blow to the hunter community, but I think they might be a bit like the Doctor (or Harry Potter, or any other hero) in that they attract half the trouble they're so good at defeating.

OVERLY LONG COMMENT IS OVERLY LONG I guess I just had a lot of feelings about this episode. :P
Edited Date: 2012-11-10 06:06 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-11-10 06:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Ha! I love everything you say.

As for Sam - I love Sam, I adore Sam because he is so human, but when it comes to his decisions I really think he is selfish - especially compared to Dean; not because Dean is a hero or perfect or anything, but because Dean has no sense of self-worth or self in general. He does actually see himself as a weapon, someone who protects and doesn't deserve to be protected (saved, loved, yadda yadda) or included in society or any group of people in general (except maybe family). On the other hand - Sam, who has always been the baby of the family - someone to be protected, is very independent person who sees himself as a part of the society (that Dean only sees as something to be protected rather than something to be a part of), someone who deserves a shot at life. So yes, I would say that in this, Sam is selfish. Even the world saving stemmed from Sam's desire to atone for his sins - he apparently has no problems leaving the world to fend for itself once he isn't personally responsible for breaking it. (The same, I think, goes for him trying to save Dean from Hell. He felt personally responsible for his death and felt the need to repay the debt - I'm pretty sure that if things were the other way around and it was Dean who died in Cold Oak instead of Sam, that Sam wouldn't have sold his soul in the first place. Not because he doesn't love Dean, but because he has much more developed sense of self, and is much healthier when it comes to these things. Dean is loyal to the point of being downright dumb. Selling his soul was like a cherry on top.)

Hi, I'm rambling, too. But don't worry, this blog is a non-judgmental free zone for ramblers!

I think they might be a bit like the Doctor (or Harry Potter, or any other hero) in that they attract half the trouble they're so good at defeating.

Ahahahahah, this. Yes, so much. Most of the problems they had to deal with were their own mistakes in one way or another. (Except maybe YED - that was Mary's fault.)

Date: 2012-11-10 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparrow-lately.livejournal.com
Sidebar: My head fucking exploded when I was re-watching early Supernatural with a friend and practically the only thing Mary's ghost says to the boys--and Sam in particular--is "I'm sorry," which seems a little random given she just saved them, but then I remembered Mary is technically at fault. Not that I honestly believe the writers knew that when they wrote that line, but still, I love that it worked like that (same with the faith healer in "Faith" telling Dean he had great work ahead of him).

At any rate...Sam is a good, sweet person with a big heart, but sometimes it feels like he's a traditionally good guy, a hero, by rote. Like people who are religious or liberal or vehement about which way the toilet paper should face just cuz that's how things worked in their household when they were a kid. Like, he learned it by watching Dean and John, but it might not be intrinsic to his personality (Dean, I think, would be fatally open-hearted, in his Deanish way, no matter what). I always think it's funny that the traditional hero's journey mold fits Sam much better than Dean (particularly in the early days) when Sam is all but shoved kicking and screaming into the traditional hero's role. I think if you want a best friend who will make you feel better after your girlfriend is being bitchy, you want Sam (or a less damaged Sam), and if you want the guy who will go back into the burning building for every last orphan, then Dean's your man.

Sam would never have sold his soul in Cold Oak. Later, after Dean had died violently and gone to hell right in front of Sam's eyes, sure, but if Dean had died somewhat "organically"? I firmly believe Sam would have...well, he'd be incredibly, incredibly sad, but he would've buried his brother and at least tried to move on.

STOP TALKING SPARROW JESUS

Date: 2012-11-10 09:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
I KNOW, RIGHT? I remember watching Home for the first time (I really dislike that episode for some reason, by the way XD) and thinking, "Why the hell would you be sorry, Mary? What an odd comment to make!" And then I got to Season 4 and it all fell into place. The same with Faith. This show has the best unintentional foreshadowing! XD

Thank you for putting it out there so clearly! This is Dean and Sam and these aspects of their personalities in a nutshell.

Yes, basically. And that is a good thing - it might seem selfish from Sam, but I really think it shows a certain strength of character that Dean doesn't have.

NO, NO, SPARROW, KEEP ON! XD

Date: 2012-11-10 10:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparrow-lately.livejournal.com
My first reaction was "Dean lacks character HOW COULD YOU," and then I realized...you're exactly right. Dean is brave, and kind, and loves with absolutely all of himself, but that's the thing--he gives of himself literally all. There's nothing left after. Poor Dean.

Sam on the other hand is a man with convictions--and always has been, while a solid 70% of Dean's character development (especially in the early years) was his developing something of an identity separate from hunting and Sam. Which makes me sad, because Dean is so very intelligent and kind and it all got lost in isolation and obsession and no sense of self or importance and this enforced narrative of the Winchesters: Sam is brain, Dean is brawn, Sam is precious, Dean is blunt instrument. It screwed them both over, but at least it have Sam something to be confident in, something to hold onto. Poor Dean.

Date: 2012-11-10 10:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Yes. I said once that Dean loves Sam to destruction - and that is never a wise thing to do. Selling your soul to Hell is not something an emotionally healthy person should - and would - ever do. And it's funny that Dean himself says something along these lines in Crossroad Blues to that one guy who sold his soul to save his wife's life - that selling your soul is selfish, not selfless, and then, few episodes later, he goes and does the same thing (all the while knowing what it's like to have someone you love sacrifice themselves for you this way!). And that's what I mean; it doesn't make Dean a terrible person and it is a heroic act in its own right, but it's unwise and hasty at best. Sam would have known better than to do this to him have the situation been reversed.

The saddest part about this is that Dean still doesn't have much more than hunting and Sam; it still defines his life no matter how far he tries to run from it, and I would even say that now in S8 more than ever - I really can't see Dean as anything else than a new version of John (with Cas being Dean's Mary, cough cough). And don't get me started on Dean's intelligence and everyone implying that it's basically non-existent! Very little in this fandom makes me angrier than this trope.

Date: 2012-11-10 11:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparrow-lately.livejournal.com
Drunk Sparrow once had to pause an episode to rant about how Dean is REALLY SMART, in some ways more demonstratively than Sam (his working knowledge of chemistry and mechanics alone are extraordinary--think what Dean could done with an engineering degree) and is nonetheless treated like this idiot slacker and it hurts my heart.

It's funny, and might speak to my enduring love for lost causes, but everything that makes like Dean better than Sam (though I really do love 'em both) actually all come back to Sam's far more developed sense of identity, as opposed to Dean, who would tear a hole in the universe for Sam without thinking twice about it. Sam is in many ways more mature (except this consistent expectation that he will be taken care of [which in adult terms translates to this entitlement we see again and again, "I should be able to walk away and do what I want and the fact that I can't is deeply unfair"], for which he can't be entirely blamed), but Dean just has this big battered heart that he feels the need to keep giving away, and it kills me.

Date: 2012-11-10 11:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Yes, yes, yes! Let's not forget he's a damn good hunter, too - and that involves a lot of book and reading, and thinking on the spot, and tactical planning, and Dean is more than capable of holding his own even on his own. This reminds me of a fic I've read a few weeks ago, that was from Bobby's point of view, and went along the lines, "Sam is explaining something about combustion, but Bobby doesn't understand why - he is a mechanic, after all, and engines work on combustion! Bobby knows all this - Sam must probably be doing this for Dean, then." And I just sat there thinking, WELL EXCUSE ME! - how many times, exactly, have we seen Dean rebuild the Impala from scratch? How, for Christ's sake, are there still people who assume that Dean is dumb as bricks?

And let's not forget the time when immature-college-snot!Sam made fun of Dean's homemade EMF meter? :(

[...] Dean just has this big battered heart that he feels the need to keep giving away [...]

Awww, now I'm crying. But I understand, and I agree; the ability to keep giving yourself away despite being so damaged and depressed and just generally so defeated by life, over and over, that is something to look up to. If more people were as kind as Dean - who just has a good heart behind all that rough exterior and snark - the world would be a much better place.

Date: 2012-11-10 11:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparrow-lately.livejournal.com
Eight years on and I'm still mad at Sam for giving Dean shit over the EMF. We know you're smart, Sam, being an ass to Dean doesn't make you smarter.

I am awash in Dean feels, and "Bobby was the only one who even kind of appreciated/understood Dean and now he's gone" feels.

Date: 2012-11-10 11:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Heh. I only started watching Supernatural about a year ago so that wound is still fresh. And the worst part is that Dean seems genuinely hurt by Sam's comment; how many times must have he been shot down, perhaps by John, for things he enjoyed and was good at, but weren't useful enough in his father's eyes? :( OH THE DEAN FEELS!

Bobby was the only one who appreciated/understood Dean... And then came Cas. :) And this is why I enjoy their dynamic so much, because Cas is the only one who treats Dean with the respect he deserves and sees him for who he is, and he's the only one who doesn't need Dean's protection and perpetual intensive care, because Cas is independent and mighty, and Dean can be just Dean with him, instead of 'the nurturer' he has to be with everyone else (maybe, except, Bobby - again, Bobby. Oh, Bobby.)

(How do I turn everything to Dean/Cas, really? I'm sorry.)
Edited Date: 2012-11-10 11:43 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-11-10 11:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparrow-lately.livejournal.com
That is such a good way to put EXACTLY WHY DEAN AND CAS ARE THE BEST FRIENDS ON THE SHOW. Wow, caps. For the feels.

Which I guess makes it sadder that Cas's downfall was too much heart, just like Dean's. Oh god EMOTIONS.

ETA: Lol I wasn't watching SPN eight years ago either, I just started watching this summer (I was loving alone in a mildly haunted house (on a very haunted island)--better get into Supernatural! :P But anyways I was talking narrative time. SORRY FOR ALL THE EDITS!
Edited Date: 2012-11-11 12:02 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-11-11 11:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
;A; I have so many feels when it comes to Dean and Cas. They are perffff for each other...

(LOL, alright, then! I should probably start thinking in narrative time as well, sorry! XD And it's okay, edit to your heart's content!)

Date: 2012-11-10 10:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] settlingbones.livejournal.com
I completely agree with all of this, honestly. I think disappointment is the one feeling Dean has honestly felt the most in his young life and nearly everyone he's been close to has been a source of it at some point. He loves with such intensity and only wants that to be returned. I think the major differences we should focus on are that when Dean went to live with Lisa it was because it's what Sam wanted. He'd made a promise. And he kept it. But for Sam to not only return from Hell for a year before speaking to Dean and then to also just not look for him after this? Imagine that kind of hurt. That must feel like abandonment. That's the kind of hurt that leaves you feeling like you've got a hole in your chest. I don't think it's wrong for Dean to feel that way. Not at all.

Date: 2012-11-10 10:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Thank you! And frankly, yes. While it's true that most people (I would say all people) will eventually disappoint you - because let's be real, nobody's perfect - there is nothing wrong with struggling with hurt afterwards. And as I pointed out, it's not even pain Dean has been actively feeding for a while (most of it, anyway). It's just there, because the fact remains that Dean has been betrayed. Sam is entitled to want different things from life, but Dean is entitled to feel hurt when they exclude and negate his own desires (normal life vs. hunting).

In my honest opinion, people who insist that Dean should "move on" from feeling hurt over Sam not looking for him after he disappeared are a little mentally deranged. It's one thing to validate Sam's choices, but it's another to accuse someone of being childish because their own family apparently doesn't care for them enough to even try and look for them when they disappear.

Date: 2012-11-10 11:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] settlingbones.livejournal.com
As someone that routinely struggles with that kind of familial rejection, I can understand it very well. It's hard to get over. it's hard to accept and even after years of the same treatment, even when you have come to expect it, it still hurts. It still stings. It still makes you feel like you'll never be good enough. It wears you down. And, as I imagine is Dean's thinking, it's easier to not think about it. Distraction is key--booze, girls, hunts. Shit besides feelings. But every now and then it creeps in. And I imagine that after everything he's been through, this recent hurt just reopens the wounds. Coming from a Dean perspective, it isn't just about Sam not looking for him (for whatever his reasons were--too upset, too tired, whatever), but it's also about living a year without Sam knowing he's in hell and all the guilt and self-loathing that comes with that knowledge, it's about the one friend outside family being willing to swallow purgatory to prevent a heavenly war to save Sam & Dean and that guilt, it's about having a father that was so consumed with revenge that he became distant and cold and the guilt that Dean no doubt feels for not having been more useful, more knowledgeable, or just better at what they do in ordre to stop Yellow Eyes sooner so his father could just be a father to them instead of a commander in chief.

For Dean, this is everything. It's not just something he can accept and forgive, although he may, the pain will eat at him always. It's the kind pain that gets way down under your skin and weaves itself around the core of your being and makes you question if you're worth anything. Does anyone love you? Why are you even still living? He's hung on for Sam. He's hung on for Bobby. He's hung on for Cas. He feels like he's losing them all and knowing that his brother wasn't running himself ragged looking for him just feels like nobody will ever hang on for him. Like he will never be what keeps someone going.

Date: 2012-11-10 11:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
I agree with you, completely. And I don't think Dean's outburst was only about Sam not looking for him - it most certainly wasn't - I just keep pointing it out because it's recent; the rest, I truly believe, are just old wounds that never stopped hurting but were learned to live with - that were forgiven, but not forgotten. Most of the things were brought up only because of the supernatural influence and therefore shouldn't be held against Dean - it's like rape (mindrape, anyway), to have all your memories taken from you and used in ways you would never have use them against someone, much less a brother you love. Dean is full of issues that were never directly dealt with, but this confrontation wasn't Dean dealing with them - this was Dean's pain being used against him in the worst ways possible; and more than the fandom's collective reaction to Dean in this episode ("Dean shouldn't be taking out his crap on Sam!!!" - well guess what, he really isn't), I am more upset by Sam's, because Sam should know what that's like.

[...] knowing that his brother wasn't running himself ragged looking for him just feels like nobody will ever hang on for him. Like he will never be what keeps someone going.

Exactly! It is so hard to imagine, to understand, that if you've given up so much for someone that deep down you expect them, and yearn for them, to do the same for you? Sam isn't wrong in pursuing a new, normal life, he isn't wrong in wanting something else, but he is wrong in undermining and overlooking Dean's reason to be hurt by Sam's actions. He keeps acting as if Dean is personally victimizing him because he dared to look for some happiness, while in reality Dean is just in pain because to him, Sam simply gave up on him. And that has to hurt, no matter how much you love someone and are willing to forgive them.

Date: 2012-11-11 03:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] juppschmitz.livejournal.com
Hi, just calling in to tell you how much I'm loving this whose episode discussion!

Everything everyone's been saying is so much what I feel.

And this

Even the world saving stemmed from Sam's desire to atone for his sins - he apparently has no problems leaving the world to fend for itself once he isn't personally responsible for breaking it. (The same, I think, goes for him trying to save Dean from Hell. He felt personally responsible for his death and felt the need to repay the debt...

This is exactly what I've been kind of feeling, except I could never put my finger on it. so thank you for making it clear for me :)

And don't get me started on the Dean/Cas feels. I'd kind of never wanted to realize that Cas did actually let Dean down - by breaking Sam's wall just so Dean wouldn't go after him. And hurting his little brother has always been the worst you could do where Dean was concerned, worse than breaking the world. And even though it's way more than clear that Dean is (has been) more than glad that Cas is (was) back and that he forgave him (I'd rather have you!), they might still have to adress this, seeing as how being let down by Cas is one of the things he mentioned while under the influence of the spectre. But knowing Dean and the way show has been going they won't give Dean the chance... *sighs*

Date: 2012-11-11 03:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seeing-ghosts.livejournal.com
Hi! I was (am) just about to comment on your entry (no, really, I even have it opened in a new window and everything!) ;D

I know, right? The sheer amount of awesome that came up from my little sucky post is astounding - everyone here is so clever and rises such great, strong points! <3

Huh, thank you for validating my opinion, too. See, when you say it out of context like this, it sounds like (I think that) Sam is a terrible person - which isn't true. Owning your mistakes is heroic, and Sam's desire for a normal life and insistence that he deserves it is such a human quality that I can't help but love Sam as a character, despite all his flaws. Sam is human and relatable in many ways much more than Dean, but he's also more annoying in it (to me, at least) because, in a way, I don't want to see a character make same mistakes I would, and the same horrible decisions and mistakes; I want a hero that gives me hope that maybe, there's someone out there who could save me one day, too. Which is, kind of, terrible.

The Dean/Cas feels are out of control all around lately! I swear to God it was never my intention to ship it so hard. Well, but anyway - I think a lot of people tried (and still try) to overlook the mistakes Cas made, but in that they are overlooking his character depth that makes him so interesting and so relatable - I think that Cas, with his character growth and regression and more growth, is the most human, relatable character on the whole show - despite not being human in the first place. Overlooking his mistakes just erases all that. But that is a problem a lot of people struggle with because to general public, mistakes equal a bad character (and in Cas's case, almost downright villain-y). Which is, also, not true.

As for Dean saying Cas let him down - I think there's more to it. Of course, the bitterness from Cas turning on him and hurting Sam is still there (and will be there, forever) but I also think there's something that happened in Purgatory that had Dean saying this. The current promos only strengthen my belief, but I never know how much I can spoil you or if you even watch the promos, so I'll shut up. XD

All in all, Dean holding grudges =/= Dean being a terrible person; Sam and Cas "letting Dean down" =/= them being terrible people. The fans (and the characters themselves) should cut both Dean and Sam (and Cas) some slack.

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